Not many sales jobs exist without them. We take lower salaries with the payback that if we secure revenue we'll be rewarded.









My income is reduced by significantly more than that proportionately and absolutely [iand [/i with immediate effect. There's no 3 year moratorium here.









Correct. Had it been a unionised business and the union & workforce opposed the changes the company would have folded and I'd have been jobless.









Yes. We were in arrears for two months and will be again next month.



The bin men have a 3 year moratorium before they'd be facing any arrears and even then that would be if they chose not to find alternatative employment in the intervening 3 years.









150 odd.







Actually, they took 12.5%, and as shareholders probably lose a good deal more than that.



The issues are that overall revenues are down due to the recession; clients are paying more slowly and the bank has cut the company overdraft. All big impacts on cash flow.

and







My company has paid below inflation rises for the past 5 years, implemented a pay freeze this year, is closing our DB pension scheme and trying to make 1200 out of 6000 staff redundant.



Fortunately I'm not one of the 6000 in-scope for redundancy but you can bet your bottom dollar that I will be doing the best I can as a Union member and a member of our works Consultative Forum to fight all of these and if that means I go on strike then so be it.



Puig's company seems to be genuine in its problems but many companies, mine included, appear to be crying wolf when they don't have a real problem.



Trade Unions are there for a reason, like any insurance policy and I am certainly glad I am a member of one otherwise I'd be on every time.

At least with a Union there's some chance of standing up against bullying bosses.

Thatcher tried to destroy Unions but didn't quite manage it. If you want a return to pre-Union days then be my guest but they're not for me.

It appears to me with many SMEs it's a very fine balance between crying wolf and going under. Poor cash flow can often be a hand to mouth situation at the best of times. Payroll can wipe a bank account out in an instant, then you have loads of other considerations; VAT, PAYEE etc. If your cash flow projection is cut by, say 40% over night (the figure Tescos made all their construction related suppliers make recently) do you hold tight and hope, or think about the greater good? Surely reacting quickly may possibly save more jobs in the long run, rather than lumbering along hoping for the best?



My company has reduced it rates to remain competitive in the current market where we complete in a global market economy. As a result they've passed these savings directly onto us i.e. salaries etc. It's to be expected since we are the company's biggest cost (and revenue earner - skills based industry).



Personally I'm not as cynical to assume a company would make cuts for convenience/feathering their nest even if they appear as though they're not in strife.



With regards to the bin men; I suspect it might be a culture issue that is common-place with non-commercial enterprises, like the civil service, where it clearly is considered acceptable to take 30 days sick per year, and get as much out of the system as you can. These benefits are not available to me, and even if they were I doubt I'd use them to these extents. I have some pride and think it would reflect badly on me.



Is it possible that if there wasn't a general p*ss take culture in the first place their whole pay structure may have been left alone?

I'm afraid they lost any sympathy I may have had by taking strike action.

I think you'll find the heavily unionised factories are the ones companies are looking to close - their inability to live in the real world regarding working practices leaves them vulnerable in times when downsizing is required. Unite is the prevalent union in my industry and their militant stance in the past is really coming home to roost. My own firm have closed two sites and downsized in three others - unsurprisingly the two closed were almost 100% unionised.



What is very sad to see is the impotent union trying to do a deal with management when the threat of job losses is reality - it is a pity they were less willing to work with management with the times were perceived to be better

…and JFK was shot by a man on a grassy knoll.



Conspiracy theorists will always believe what they want to fit their own agenda.



If you honestly believe that, in this current economic climate, your company plan on reducing it’s workforce by 1200 (at some considerable cost) because they feel that they can hide behind the clock or recession and “they just want an excuse to get rid of a few bed eggs and trouble causers” then you are seriously deluded.



Just sit back for a second and think, really think, would my company pay off over a sixth of its employees just to make a point or to of the union?



Your company is making 1200 redundancies because they need to cut their overheads to survive – it aint rocket science.

Seriously, are the bin men actually going to be on £12K a year ?



How much are they getting at the moment, on average ?



Can someone confirm / deny the story I heard the other week that they were actully getting something like £20 - 25K per annum and the current change is merely to bring them in to line with what refuse workers for other local authorities get paid. On top of that there were several perks like full pay for 'job & knock' etc, that have already been mentioned.



I've not specific axe to grind as I don't live in the Leeds Local Authority area and think yourself lucky people of Leeds that you don't get the bi-monthly collection that I have to deal with.

Luxury – we used to dream of bi-monthly collections. There wo 38 of us in shoe box at side ov t’ road…

Even though no business will admit to it, the "recession" has been good news for some of the "Blue Chips", I am currently running one such "Fit For the Future strategy" aimed at trimming the fat, its a very easy line to throw and many are using it.



I expect the said company to save approximately 90-100m in salaries, bonuses and the susequent streamlining of process which will include a recommendation to outsource Sales Activity which is a real lever in the current climate.



Having said that you seem to know what you re talking about so hey

what do I know.

Depends who you are talking about, the workforce consists of several grades, from street cleaners to bin collectors to drivers, I've heard £20-25K mentioned for drivers at Biffa (see Sin Bin thread) but I doubt that your city centre chewing-gum picker-up is going to be on that.



Anyway, my bins out tonight, we've only missed two collections out of four and could probably manage quite well with a fortnightly collection - last week they even emptied the green bins which was a bonus.



They emptied the green bins into the same truck as the normal waste though

as chuntered previously - it drives my up the wall, our green bin (disputes aside) is full for 2 or 3 weeks per month, I am sure we are not exceptional - it just a token green bin effort.

Regardless of the justice or otherwise of their case, I suspect the bin men will have zero sympathy from those who have taken pay cuts, whose jobs are at risk, or who have already lost their jobs. ATEOTD if they feel so badly treated that they feel they have to resign, I'm sure there are loads of people - who face losing THEIR houses and heaven knows what else - who currently would jump at the chance of their jobs even at the new rates.



One suspects the new reality has not yet dawned on some people.