Im not on about nerves or training im on about actual performance & the 1st year lads have struggled in games including CSThe team are also finding that they dont have as much time & space to play fast open RL they did at u16 level.

Ive no doubts it will come after all they are only half way into their 1st year but i stand by what i said.

I agree with you that the situation is not ideal for throwing the lad in. He should be used when we have a full side so that no pressure is on him, unlike now. But people need to stop looking at ages, as regardless he was always going to play this season anyway. He is good enough, and he is the future, not to mention he is a first team salaried player.



On the reserve front, I mentioned a few weeks back after speaking with a Leeds and Huddersfield coach, that they both felt their clubs had it wrong on their decision there, and pointed it out at the time that it was no coincidence that the clubs doing well had gone for reserve teams.

Im firmly of the opinion that all SL clubs should run a reserve grade.

I wasn't, but I have firmly changed my mind. What certainly shouldn't happen though, is two or three clubs going against the rest. If the majority voted for it, then all Super League should have done it. It does appear at the moment at least, that GH will have to eat some humble pie.

Nobody knows whether he will good enough - he hasn't yet played against full time elite athletes. At junior level he was like Karl Pryce i.e. significantly bigger than any of his team mates/opponents albeit more skill than Pryce ever had.



I am looking forward to seeing how he goes - but like others I would concerned about a young lad who may be large but will lack bulk, tendon/ligament strength, muscle toughness etc playing against players who are bigger and stronger than he is and will target him. Has he ever played open age rugby?

Get him in. Get him playing!

Get him injured.

So far McDermott has been careful not to throw young forwards into SL until they have been physically and mentally ready. He has chosen to play senior players who may be carrying minor injuries rather than risk the youngsters and has been criticised for doing so. He has shown that he will play young backs when needed as the physical demands are much less, but modern day rugby in the forwards is a different matter and immature youngsters have to be protected.

Anyone remember the last 17 year old forward to come into top division RL and look physically ready for it? You're probably going back to the days of Sculthorpe and Farrell, maybe Nick Scruton more recently?



Thankfully clubs take a more long-term view when it comes to the physical development of young players these days, looking to build muscle mass more slowly onto bodies that are still developing.

Wasn't stevie ward only 17/18? Though I suppose some of his early games were in the halves and it was only last year he looked physically ready for life in the back row.

Scott Moore?

Take your point about Stevie ward but since leaving the GF in 2012 with a busted shoulder he has had one serious injury after another and not got through one season without one. Was excellent last year and we have missed him. Hope he can get right whether this year or just take more time and build up for next season.



I wish smith all the best tonight but he if ends up with Splinters in his backside I won't be too disappointed or surprised.

Stevie Ward was 18 and 4 months when he made his Leeds 1st grade debut in 2012 - that season he started 3 at SO, 2 at SH, 4 at SR and 2 at LF with another 10 appearances from the bench.



In terms of other Leeds forwards (excluding hookers) age on debut:

16 - Nick Fozzard (1994)

17 - Adrian Morley (1995), Garreth Carvell (1997), Jamie Jones-Buchanan (1999), Nick Scruton (2002)

18 - Danny Ward (1999), Jason Netherton (2001), Ryan Bailey (2002), Carl Ablett (2004), Danny Allan (200icon_cool.gif,Brad Singleton (2011), Jordan Baldwinson (2013)

Seem to recall him making his debut as a scrum-half for St Helens away at Wigan as a 16 year old - surprised Ian Millward escaped with just a caution for child abuse on that one.

Bateman was 17 at Bradford wasn't he? That is the sort of player Smith is, with organising skills. Hasn't Bateman played continuous since?

I thought he was a hooker but I could be wrong

Wasn't Sam Burgess 17 when he got his debut at Bulls?

If he gets his chance I for one wish him all the success in what is hopefully a small stepping stone to a long and successful career at Leeds

must have been he was 18 when he made his debut for GB and put that monster hit on Moi Moi.

It's case-by-case as to which young forwards are ready. Nobody could say Sam Burgess wasn't physically ready for open age rugby at 17. Craig Huby played a full season for Cas at 16, iirc.

Take the point. Sam Burgess is a bit of a one-off but he still had suffered shoulder surgery on both shoulders before age 21.

Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"I thought he was a hooker but I could be wrong'" Not when he made his debut at 16, this small article appears to confirm he started out at scrum-half: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 595010.stm FWIW - I didn't agree with Millward pitching him in to the then fiercely contested derby away at Wigan. Nowadays in the comparitively powderpuff version SL has become I suspect it wouldn't be an issue at all.

Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"I thought he was a hooker but I could be wrong'" Not when he made his debut at 16, this small article appears to confirm he started out at scrum-half: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 595010.stm FWIW - I didn't agree with Millward pitching him in to the then fiercely contested derby away at Wigan. Nowadays in the comparitively powderpuff version SL has become I suspect it wouldn't be an issue at all.

Darryl Clark must have been young when he broke through at Cas.

Possibly at SO rather than LF but Sinfield was playing at 16.



at other clubs theres Tom Burgess at 18, Westerman 17, Clark had just turned 18 i think, Wasnt James Graham 17 on debut? I think Chris Hill was 18 too

In James Roby's first season (2004) Millward played him on the wing in a playoff game vs Wigan even though they had Ade Gardner on the bench.