Not really that much skills holding someone down is it. It was very scrappy. I do agree that in SOME games the refs have wanted it to be like tag rugby (the wire-hudds game springs to mind) It's about getting the balance right, we don't want a scoot fest, but mos fans don't want the wrestling tactics we saw yesterday

You can say what you want but I was getting text messages saying last night was boring especially in the first half. I'm undecided on the matter but I do not want to go to a position where we end up with players being gang-jumped a second after receiving the ball every tackle. There has to be a mix between the two. Our game should not be so open that it resembles basketball and the same time it shouldn't be so oppressive that it resembles rugby union.

There's far less skill in making scoots in wide open spaces via manufactured quick PTB's. I'd rather watch a tough physical arm-wrestle than that watered-down SL rubbish. I'm not interested in what most SL fans want either... they can stick to watching SL if that's what makes them happy.



I do agree that we need to find the right balance between attack and defence in order for it to be a fair contest though.

I thought todays game was a good balance. The ref was very good, very consistent. Didn't let you lay on, but it wasn't a scoot fest.

I'm guessing all those text messages you received were from fans of the scoot-scoot Super League style of play which is whoop-de-doo 'entertainment' all the way (of course it is - yawn), yes?



I mean Rob Burrow was a unanimous Harry Sunderland Trophy winner in the SL Grand Final the other week on the back of what skill exactly? That's right... a scoot-scoot performance after manufactured quick PTB's in manufactured wide open spaces





Agree with you that we need to get the balance right. The holding down tactics of both sides were allowed a bit too much latitude but at least it was good to see a physical arm wrestle for a change.



It all made for a pleasant change IMO. I'm bored of easy metres gained on the back of scoots from dummy half or first receiver. Attacking teams are rewarded enough with 10 metres of territory after being tackled. What more do they want? I enjoyed the arm wrestle, the slowing down and the physical nature. The players are skilful enough to manufacture their own territory and space instead of having it manufactured for them.



Aren't they?

Funnily enough no. It was from good old Despo who is a "It used to be better in the 5m days" character lol.







I don't disagree with that.







I think we all understand that but striking the balance is not as easy as it looks and it's never more in evidence than in the comparisons between Super League and the NRL. The truth lies right between the two. It is unlikely to ever be resolved because of the factitious nature of how our sport is governed across the world.

The despondent one changes his despondent views according to which way the wind happens to be blowing. He's an advocate of the 'entertaining' SL style on another day... particularly if it involves Saints on a flat-track bully, scoot-scoot mission against some lower ranked Super League tripe lol

People are concentrating on the speed of the ruck in the Australia Kiwi’s game but it was more than that. It took an age for every restart with players refusing to even arrive at the scrum – I lost count of the number of times the ref had to call players over to form a full scrum complement, he should have blown a few penalties



Both the games so far have lacked intensity compared to the top end matched we have seen this year (on both sides of the world) and that’s shocking considering they were international games. I can let the England Wales game go as there was only ever going to be one winner but I thought the Australia New Zealand game was poor considering they were supposed to be the elite of our game

The Australia/NZ game was scratchy yet still way ahead of the England/Wales game in terms of skill and intensity which isn't bad considering all the players bar one only arrived in the country last week after long flights. England will need to improve ten-fold next week just to match Australia's scratchy performance last night.

Agree with Keith in that there is far more skill in breaking down a set defensive line than the SL style quick PTB scoot rugby. Plus i think it is more entertaining watching a good half clinically break down a line with a pass than watching a hooker/half scooting and scoring off the back of a lightning quick PTB and a scattered defence.

Whilst you may feel there are truths in what you say, as a game it was still pretty average overall. Hardly like the match a couple of years back at The Stoop.

Different context two years ago. The Kiwis hadn't been hammered in Australia's back yard less than 2 weeks prior to the 4N game in the UK like they were this year. They are also missing a lot more key players this year through injury. Confidence isn't as high and they needed to set down a marker for later on in the tournament. I think they achieved that and if they make the 4N Final, they are are good chance of beating Australia again. I don't agree that last night's game was that inferior in quality to the one at the Stoop two years ago anyhow as I don't judge quality on the availability of manufactured quick PTB's and scoots from dummy half to suit particular tastes in entertainment