But that is explicitly not what IL and Wane have said is going to happen.



When Wane was announced as coach just a few weeks ago the talk from both of them was about improving on last season not taking a step back. IL expects Wigan to be in at least one final every season and he is looking for the team to improve from last season. Wane was saying he felt the team should be more consistent (he was referring to too many drawn games I think) and that this was one of his aims.



He is going to do extremely well as a coach if he manages to do that and satisfy IL's ambition given who we have lost and who we have recruited.



That is not to knock these players. The 18 year old sounds a very promising addition to the squad but I don't see any of them as being players to replace the likes of Joel, Coley and a solution in 2012 to the centre problem.

That hopefully comes in the form of Anthony Gelling. He has the physically attirbutes to be just as good as Joel at cente and Joel was not a natural centre, he was still learning. Gelling has played centre and could potentially be a really good signing. Gleeson was a huge loss and we never replaced him other than Joel showing some potential, if this guy can show some potential at centre then we won't really lose out.

Off course we will lose out considering he hasnt actually played any first grade yet. You say Joel was learning, but so is this guy.

That was down to Maguire sticking with certain players he knew and creating a 'squad within a squad' and not giving a chance to some of the young players. It's because he had no interest in what happened in the future, all he cared about was winning trophies this year.



It's something Shaun Wane wasn't happy with so I imagine a few players being given their debut this season.

There was a revealing comment in one of the interviews with SW when he said that it was obvious that Madge was here for the short term & was focussed on the senior squad only - or words to that effect. That maybe explains why no-one, with the exception of Charnley, got any sort of a decent run in the side last year. Certainly don't want to be critical of MM given what he delivered, but the time is right to take a more long-term view.

Richards is 30 in February too.

That is my point exactly, it is not as big a step backwards as some people may think. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see this guy perform just as well as Joel did at centre.

And how would you have faced the press, Dave? By announcing that, since the unexpected departure of Joel, things are now going to be tough and we probably won't do as well as we have.



That would have them flocking to buy season tickets, wouldn't it?



You have a lot of opinions, Dave, some I agree with but some of which make me very glad that you're not our CEO.

Cruncher, I agree.



I don't think PR is one of DaveOs strong points.

Spot on, no point reading into comments like that anyway. Coaches usually look at the positives, what else are they really going to say? What else is a player signing for us going to say other than... 'I'm happy to be signing for this great club'... whether they believe it or not is not the point.

Looking at our squad compared to the other challengers im confident we will be right in there at the business end again. Leeds 5th and winning the GF shows you dont even have to have that good a regular season to be champions.



Finishing 8th and winning the GF would be an improvement on last season so i wouldnt rule anything out.